Diagnosis: Is my NIA broken?

[B29]

- written by a very novice NIA user -
== sorry for being over-complete ==

I've been trying to scan these forums for something similar, but I haven't found it using the "search" function on a couple of related keywords, nor did I find it reading a few pages of a few large threads, so I'll open this thread in the hope that it gets completed by everyone else here for my and other future visitors' use.

What I was basically looking for was a thread to know when to consider my NIA operational and when to consider it broken: a few pointers on what you should notice a healthy NIA doing. Hope this forum can become an easy support guide and I hope to figure out what's bugging my NIA and have it working again soon!


First, I'll describe my problem. I received the NIA last friday. Knew beforehand I was to expect a device that required reading the manual first, that might require several months of 'training' and that was prone to electrical interference from adapters.

Problem 1: the manual doesn't help you jack squat. same for the tutorial. It doesn't tell you how to detect whether the device is working properly and how to perform some simple very exaggerated test actions to get you started. Luckily here, (a) I know my way around electrical devices, (b) I had a trained physician nearby to explain alpha and beta signals and EEG, EOG, EMG theory, (c) I had basic knowledge of meditation, (d) my NIA seemed to work.
Question 1: Is there currently a quick-start guide in the works? I'd be happy to contribute my (so-far limited) knowledge and time in writing.

So, after deciding the manual/tutorial were disappointing, I decided to try out the device.

Problem 2: When taking the headband out of the box, I noticed that the diamond-shaped outer rim of one of the sensors was bent crooked as if it had been slightly folded around the headband and then fixed under an angle. (Since this was just the right-most sensor and not all three, I thought .. damn .. might be broken). No where did I find information on how flexible and tolerant these things are supposed to be.
Question 2: Can someone expand on how precisely a decent NIA should come 'out of the box', preferrably with detailed pictures? More importantly, can someone in the Tech Department detail the sensitivity of the device to things like bending and loose wires, connections etc.

The headband feels fairly flexible so I could imagine it not being important and decided to go ahead with trying it anyway.

I was out of town and had to use someone else's laptop with a decent processor and RAM. (Regretfully they are unavailable to me now)
It connected and flatlined at the very top of the screen.

Problem 3: Electrical interference
If the NIA is plugged in and the signal is all the way at the top, is the device broken or getting an overload? Similar problem for when it would be at the bottom? One can work with a signal that is displaying a wave-pattern within limits, but a flat line at the edge of the screen is just plain nasty. You'd be fumbling in the dark trying to troubleshoot.
Question 2: Others have mentioned it around here, but it sure would be useful to get a FAQ/Operational checklist around here. (I'll try my hand at a starter at the end of this post - please add)

So, well, I'd read about electrical interference, so I unplugged all chargers and adapters, running the laptop on battery power. I got a fairly responsive signal that I was able to get close to the red/green line, but it still seemed jumpy when I didn't experience doing anything. Picked up the laptop and moved around the room. Found a spot on the couch that was decent and hooray I got a decent signal. On with the testing of the device. Again, the tutorial nor manual were very helpful on where to start. Not even the common sense advice of "relax, look at the screen and start trying things" is included as a quick starter tip (!)
After playing around a little, I managed to calm my mind enough to get all the brainfingers to zero, except for the glance which stuck at 100%. Oddly enough, the corresponding left/right joystick did seem to jitter and also responded to my efforts of trying to keep it centered.
(In retrospect this might have been caused by me not REPLACING the nia.exe when updating, but rather running it and closing it - leading me to be using the old nia.exe the second time I connected - which reportedly had a faulty glance-bar, right?)

Problem 4: One doesn't have a clue where to start when using the device for the first time, other than the vague descriptions of 'glance', 'alpha', 'beta' and 'muscle'.
Question 4: If it is the express intention of not saying anything to not ruin the 'clean slate', why not say so? If it isn't, how about a few tips on getting quick initial response from the NIA to encourage more practice?

Using a laptop which had to be recharged every 2 hours, I was able to play a little with the device over the weekend. Myself and two other people used it and we were all able to get basic control of the muscle input. A basic game of easy Pong was achievable within 15 minutes. Within 1-2 hours of practice, I managed to score a point against the computer. After a day, I managed to score 7 points in a 30-ball game. Midway through day 2, after approximately 5 hours of use, I'd learned the gimmick of clenching my jaws (because a physician just happened to mention that it might be a good muscle to start experimenting with) and 'breathing the bat', so I was able to play a game of hard Pong; movement looked fluid, though a bit jittery, which might have come from my own imperfect control or from electrical interference. (I really hate not being able to know for sure that it's just me). I scored a few points in hard Pong, hooray.

Now came the time to return home. I repacked the device and was eagerly anticipating using it on my home system (E8400, 4GB RAM, 4x750GB RAID5/0, Vista 64 Ultimate SP1) which should clearly outperform the laptop I'd been using.

- Plug in device
- Install CD package
- Install update. (At this point I finally noticed I was to REPLACE the nia.exe instead of run it)
- Run nia software -> no device
- Try different USB port -> nothing
- Reboot computer -> nothing
- Reinstall driver package 2.000 + 2.010 update from website ... finally it works.

- Plug in device -> 100% flatline

Now, there's even less adapters in my own PC room than where I'd been using the laptop, so I had been expecting no trouble at all. As I'd been doing the entire weekend, continuously touching the NIA box during use, I touched the box -> the signal dropped, but CAME BACK UP again within a second. WEIRD!

Decided to read about grounding issues a little, found a post about static build-up.
First touched the radiator. No effect on signal.
Then touched the box. Short drop, then signal raised again. Released box.
Touched box again after 3 secs. No effect
Touched box again after 1 minute. Again .. short drop in signal, then back to 100%

Decided to try out this static theory: touched the NIA box AND touched the radiator. MAN, did that surprise me! I got a very unpleasant sensation; obviously I had a current running through me from the box to the "grounding" and apparently enough to notice it. Unplugging the USB cable seemed to stop the current.

At this point I was very discouraged. If the outside shell of the device was being continuously charged with a low-voltage/low-amp current (haven't taken a measuring device to it, yet), I was seriously suspecting it being broken. However, unplugging and replugging the usb cable still made the device disappear/reappear and the blue lights on the bottom of the device still functioned. It seemed to continue doing what it had been doing.

So no luck on grounding myself on the radiator or the NIA, no luck grounding the NIA on the radiator (with and without me as a conduit) .... the signal still was unresponsive at a 100% level. Using the latest driver, I could click on the Muscle: xxxx value and lower the sensitivity of the EMG ... that FINALLY showed me a signal line within bounds .. however .. it did not seem to respond at all to any of my exaggerated muscle movements. I was fairly certain these had worked on the same device several hours before.

Then I read something about testing the different electrodes, though not reading anything about any test procedures. So I decided to test further. Removing the headband and placing it on my desk, should drop the signal line to zero in a "clean room". It did! (I'd rebooted the software a few times, so everything was set to default). There were some very minor spikes at irregular points, but these might also have been from the device picking up me, right OCZ ???

Sure enough, placing the headband on my head again, increased signal levels to 100% again. Had I suddenly over the course of a few hours increased my brain-levels such that I was no longer able to blank my mind???

I removed the headband and decided to test the "center electrode is reference" theory. So I touched a thumb to the center electrode. The signal remained at a flat 0%. Now, holding my thumb to the center, I touched the left sensor: nothing. Holding my thumb to center, I touched the right sensor: immediate spike to 100%.

I placed the headband on my head, but pulled a little on the band to keep the right sensor clear of my forehead: yup, signal line stayed dead at 0%.

More testing: touching left and center individually with a finger: 0% flatline. touching just the right sensor with one finger: 100% flatline. At this point I was fairly certain something was broken and I was inwardly cursing that I did not have access to the laptop on which I'd been using the device (reasonably) successfully.

Question 5: Can someone from the Tech Department give a few basic testing procedures on how to ensure proper NIA device functioning?
I was again fumbling in the dark here, trying to get some response to narrow down my issues with a device that is literally a black box to me due to lack of a whitepaper. (or should I read those articles on the related brainfingers-device??)

As a last resort for finishing up this post, I pulled out an old laptop (PIII 1GHz, 256MB), thinking I couldn't do worse, while starting to write this topic. Using the laptop on a power adapter (because the battery is dead) and just 3 feet away from my main system, on the same desk, I installed the NIA device drivers from the originally included CD. No updates this time. Then came the fresh reminder (I'd had this on the other laptop too, both using XP SP2): there's NO DotNet framework v2 packaged with the NIA CD .. and since it is both necessary and easy to include, this seems like a careless omission (Come on OCZ, there's 600MB free space on that installation CD and even in case of a licensing issue .. there's plenty of space to write about THIS in the manual!). Ok, so I downloaded the .Net framework installer onto a usb flashdrive and installed it on the laptop.

The NIA software is running, though the processor is running a full 100%. Symptoms are exactly the same as on the main system: continuous current when grounding NIA to radiator through human, signal level 100% whatever I try, with the exception of removing the headband, no response when touching left or middle sensor, 100% spike when touching right sensor. I'm thinking my device is broken. Any comments, ideas, criticisms welcome.

I'd be very disappointed to know that these devices are so fragile that they cannot withstand a repackaging yet there is no mention of this made on the box. I'd also be disappointed to know if indeed there is a high percentage of NIA's returning DOA or RMA; I'd been considering the device for human and medical research among other things and still am, but would sincerely appreciate more detailed information.




Finally, I will contribute a few of my experiences in the hopes of adding to a comprehensive and well-sorted FAQ for future users as I still do believe this device will be booming. (Unless OCZ doesn't fix these "prototype-flaws" and gets beaten by the upcoming Emotiv consumer device)

My first starter at creating a troubleshooting sheet:

(After succesfully installing dotnetfx 2.0 and the NIA software):

1. If device not "connected":
- Check for blue lighting at bottom of box
- Check for correct drivers attached to usb device instance
on Vista (64-bit) systems:
- To reset, unplug USB, reconnect to DIFFERENT usb port (with software still loaded)

2. When getting a 0% flatline .. press headband to forehead. Watch for response
- if response: tighten headband
- if no response: "lube up" (advise to be expanded)
- if still no response: unplug and plug again (try with all cables)
- if still no response: see further

3. When getting 100% flatline
- unplug any adapters or chargers or anything that contains AC/DC converters
- pull headband from head and see if the signal drops
- place headband on tabletop and see if signal registers more than 0%
- touch NIA box to see if signal drops.
- also, does the signal drop-and-rise or stay down while you keep touching
- <various other shielding issues??>

4. When you've gotten a signal line between 0% and 100%
- think of a calm breeze/ocean/white canvas, calm your mind, try for response.
- calibrate, recalibrate, recalibrate (keeping your mind as peaceful as possible)
- <sorry, never got to do this very often>

5. When having an acceptable signal line (yellow) near the baseline/green line,
how to start using the device. A few things I found that worked:
- raising and lowering the eyebrows can be an effective first step to 'muscle'-control
- blinking the left and right eye respectively seem to increase chances of an
intentional 'left' or 'right' glance, though nowhere near perfect.
- jerking the eyebrows up rapidly provided the most effective spikes in muscle switch
- clenching the jaws and gradually increasing pressure allowed a much finer measure
of control over the 'muscle'-joystick

6. Is everything working?
- do you get a signal-reading when touching each sensor separately? should you?
- can you eventually calm all brainfingers (including glance)
- do you see all sensors moving in the "test" screen (without concentration)
- can you center/zero all signals in the "test" screen? (user-specific?)

[Please correct, add, complete the above .. and please cut up and re-place or re-use any of the above text for the creation of a comprehensive FAQ/quick guide]


[On a side-note: where has the "reaction time" practice game gone in the latest NIA software?]

[Jason151]

uhhg wall of text O.o ill try to go through but i might miss some

OK
1.not that i know of as each person has to learn differently and each persons brains are different so its pritty much figuring it out for your self there are manny topics on the bord here about alpha and beta wave only use.

2.well dont realy understand that question alltho you should know there are 2 different nia boxes an erly model and a production model they both look the same cept the erler model has a red light under it. also there are 3 or so types of headbands that itsa possble to get (tho at random there is a thred on that as well. he 3rd gen headband (the better one) has beading on the end of the rubber so the gripper thing will grip it when you fasten it to your head)

3.ignore electrical interfearance stuff the main point is you have to ground your self to the nia not to a radiator or something just put your hand on it or rest your foot on it, there are also many posts on this with some inventive ways of dooing it. and the waves an be jumpy at first and it can even take a fiew muinnets of relaxing before it settles down and goes down propperly. glance may be you have the headband on wrong or indeed the sensor may be bust that you mentiond

4.like i said just up a bit its different for evryone the only thing thats teachable realy is the clenching of the jaw for pong and maybe glance to some extent but for brainwaves,.. your on your own there are threads on it here my sugestion would be to map it to WSAD keys jump in to a practice mode on your fave fps and see what happens,.. remember your not trying to CONTROLE the brainwaves your letting your sub mind do it expect wacky movemnts untill your mind figures it out and you will start to see patterns in movement.
and yeah clenching your jaw is what evryone pritty much uses i think there is no one else that uses annouther mussle and ys the jitter is from you not some mystical interfearance to help with the jitter set smoothing up a bit.
just to point out that its powerd via usb so of course unpulgging it would stop the current,.. i think your worrying fare to much about static just rest your hand on it thats all you need to do for now, ive kind of gotten lost in the i touched the radiator and ect to fully get whats your saying what the signal is dooing so skipping the rest of that section cos uve got me way confused

5.no its pritty easy to see if its broken or not tho ive had 2 break on me one was the box the 2nd was the headband dont ground your self to a radiator you need to ground your self NOT the nia there is static build up within YOU that can mess with the signals you juast need to touch the nia. not sure what your problem is because you have focused on saying about grounding instead of what the brianwaves are dooing (also picture helps) the manual does say check the forum for latest updates.

make sure the bands on right, your forhead is cleen, if you want to you can use a SMALL bit of moisturiser to help the sensors.

from what i can understand your curent problem is that the signal is to high when you ut it on (but when you take it off its flatlining? or staying high?) makse sure you have it positions on your heead right the band shouldent be tight but it also shouldent be lose all sensors should be touching your skin


and they got rid of the outher practice games
ive probbly missed some stuff out / got one or 2 things wrong not sure i hope not to manny lol

[B29]

Yep, sorry Jason (and others). I was simultaneously trying to share my experiences, some tips for OCZ and users here AND my problem that the NIA now seems broken after two days of (apparently - to all I can find) normal start-up use. (I will try to digest my own post and cut it up a little, add reference links to other threads in this forum and start working it into the Troubleshoot Guide that I was missing when I first jumped into this forum)


@ 1: I was just wondering, from my own experience: "It must be possible to write a short 'quick-start guide' and was wondering if it was in the works and where to apply to help with it (once I have a functioning NIA again)"

@ 2: I searched around for the model thread and found it here: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...09&postcount=2
My model is apparently revision 2 as it is tapered off, but without any beads preventing the slip.

Reading how revisions 1 and 2 might still be a little quirky and revision 3 is apparently good, I guess I will want a rev3 as replacement.
Thanks!
(By using the NIA I figured out the answer to that other part of my initial question: slight optical curving/bending of the sensors does not mean the device doesn't work.)

@3: Yep, I had been using the NIA while continuously grounding myself to just the NIA-box (keeping my hand on it) and it had worked fine. Then I changed locations and computers and suddenly all touching the box did was drop the signal for just a second and then it would pop right up again without further response. That's when I found out that grounding myself to simultaneously the NIA and a 'real' ground produced an electrical current to run through me (and provide unpleasant sensations in the point where my hand touched the 'ground'). Now I'm questioning whether that is normal, defective or whether that might have broken the device (in which case I would advise OCZ to post a warning about it). I'm guessing that was not supposed to happen and since it also happened when I proceeded to try it in different usb ports on that same pc AND on an old laptop in the same room, I was guessing it was the NIA grounding it's outer casing through me.

@4: Yep, I've now read about that some more: great info. Also very good to know that almost everyone uses jaw clenching.
I was thinking ahead here about future users and I think it would be really useful if OCZ were to include a small quick-start (see @1) and include it with the product. Best might probably be to give a notice that every new user should check in to (a thread on) these forums first!
I think some of these things about "just play a game, let your subconscious experiment" as well as experiences on people "manipulating single fingers", "starting with clenching jaws", "how to get an interference-free room" are kind of essential to getting started.
(Certainly more so than the manual and tutorial)

@5: Again, sorry about the jabber. I was looking for a quick-and-easy checklist, like the one I'd been trying to write there at the end of my post. Since I got the NIA to work before, I was fairly sure that I didn't need oil, I positioned it correctly and from the imprints on my forehead after playing for over an hour, I knew all sensors were touching. For people who can't get it to work, that would be a great first step.

My problem is that, now that I have a device that seems broken, how do I know it's broken; that is: what should a functioning NIA do?
- I get a signal when I put the headband on (though it's flatlined 100&#37; and unresponsive)
- touching the nia box continuously only gives me a 1-second drop in signal level, then back to 100% and unresponsive.
- I get a flatline 0% signal when I take the headband off. Does this mean I have an 'interference-free room' ?
- touching my fingertip to each sensor in turn only produces a spike (back up to 100% unresponsive) on the right-most sensor. The others don't react. Is this normal? How to test each individual sensor for proper response?
- Regretfully I didn't test this when it was working, or I'd know, but: Is the NIA supposed to be leaking current through its metal casing (as noticed when grounding myself to NIA and radiator)


Yep, my signal is too high (flatline top), when I take the band off it's flatline low and I know it's not doing what it used to do when I was working with it succesfully. I also tested with various drivers and now know that for most of the time, I had been using it with driver version 1.0xx, or at least what came with my original packaging. (the version that has no eye: xxx and muscle: xxx indicators and still includes the "reaction time" practice) -> this might explain why I had difficulty on the glance-finger not moving.

Thanks a bunch for the assistance.

[Metamorphisis]

You're sitting in the same boat as most of us who have also been screwed over by a defective headset.

try this link to see how a proper model looks. I'm getting the latest revision, so I'm searching for it's image on google at the moment.

[AnTraX]

You're sitting in the same boat as most of us who have also been screwed over by a defective headset.

try this link to see how a proper model looks. I'm getting the latest revision, so I'm searching for it's image on google at the moment.

picture 1 is the sh*t

[B29]

You're sitting in the same boat as most of us who have also been screwed over by a defective headset.

try this link to see how a proper model looks. I'm getting the latest revision, so I'm searching for it's image on google at the moment.

Although a picture would be useful in a central location on these forums, with maybe some tips on where to look for visual defects, I'm actually at a point where I know that there's nothing VISUALLY wrong with my NIA. It's the internal electronics somewhere along the way .. and so I'm looking for some trial-and-error techniques (other than taking the entire circuitry apart) to diagnose whether the device is broken or my brain's just hypercharged. It's somewhat comforting that it did work, since this gives me more certainty that it's the device being broken, but how to know for sure??

Guess from what I've been reading that there's some more people with these problems, though I'm guessing we're not hearing much from most of the people using the device (rev1, rev2 or rev3) succesfully.

[Metamorphisis]

the more you look up certain brainwaves, the more you understand the product, imo. Also, the 300$ thing, .....____ That. I prefer having hair as opposed to having I think I counted 14 Sensors on that thing that reminds me of a SAW movie trap. Hehe. No offense, since I'd have prolly bought it stupidly. and not saying people who did are stupid either, it's just meh preference of headset.

[Jason151]

heyyy whats that 300 usd sensor thing,.. does it work? is it better or what ^^

[MrOtsKrad]

Thats the device that was supposed to rival the NIA device. They did the smart thing when they saw it wasn't working as well as it was marketed <insert comment here> the name of the company escapes me at the moment, but heard its due out later this year.

[Unregistered]

Yep, my signal is too high (flatline top), when I take the band off it's flatline low and I know it's not doing what it used to do when I was working with it succesfully. I also tested with various drivers and now know that for most of the time, I had been using it with driver version 1.0xx, or at least what came with my original packaging. (the version that has no eye: xxx and muscle: xxx indicators and still includes the "reaction time" practice) -> this might explain why I had difficulty on the glance-finger not moving.

B29, you are probably right with your assessment of the headband being rev. 2 and that would explain some of the problems. I'll have Ryder get you RMA instructions, but I would encourage you to keep the hardware and only have the headband replaced, that makes it overall easier on the mailing procedure as well.

[HSishi]

I prefer the right headband, it's more comfortable. 14 sensor's can't compensate the fact if you are one of the people whose brains don't get the Enlightment how to use the brain waves (like mine - no offense) .

//HSishi

[B29]

That multi-sensor thing is the Emotiv EPOC and the company and product info can be found here: click. It's not yet available and scheduled for launch somewhere this summer.

@Unregistered: Thanks! My NIA has become less and less responsive over the past two days. I'll edit and update the first post of this thread to reflect my experiences so far (and I'll cut down a lot on the text).

@HSishi: From what I've been able to read on this other device is that their main focus is on recreating your real-life emotions and expressions in an avatar and some specially developed games. They are rumored to be secretive about their signals-analysis and certainly seem to have thrown in the key-mapping software (which makes the NIA so versatile) as an afterthought, if one is to believe their marketing-efforts. Only real competitive advantage I've read so far is that it will supposedly contain a gyroscope, so it should measure head-movement too.

[Jason151]

if it has a gyroscope in it for head movemnt that could indicate a mouse function ^^

[CmdrRickHunter]

Never feel bad for giving too much data on this forum. In fact, that is one of the more well defined posts of issues.

The one question that I feel authoritative enough to answer is regarding the meanings of "glance/alpha/beta". Alpha and Beta are groups brainwaves (electrical oscillation caused by something along the lines of clocking signals - I dont believe the brain scientists even know the real reason). As for glance, you can find my post on ocularmotor muscles and cranial nerves. I could have bought a car with all the $5 words I had to use in that post!

I don't reproduce the latter here because its not all that important. Other than the fact that alpha is very relaxed waves, beta is less relaxed waves, and glance sees left/right movements of the eye (movements, not positions), you don't NEED to know why, and can actually be slowed down by knowing (which leads to forcing).

Consciously knowing what you need to do wont help you do it, when you're playing with details so closely wired into the brain. What you need to do is let your mind "fiddle" and learn the interface. And, on the way, you may get an intuitive grasp of the settings. As an example, there's sensitivity and movement dials on each brainfinger. I don't know what each does, but I tend to know which one needs to be tweaked, which way, and by how much.

So play =)

[Unregistered]

That multi-sensor thing is the Emotiv EPOC and the company and product info can be found here: click. It's not yet available and scheduled for launch somewhere this summer.

I don't want to sound negative and maybe my information is not correct but I have tried to contact Emotiv for the past 2 weeks and have not received any replies, in addition, one of their vendors talked to me trying to get some business from OCZ because allegedly Emotiv went out of business. In addition I am working with somebody on organizing a congress on the progress of BCI and we tried to invite Emotiv ... no reply over the past few weeks ..

I am trying to not spread rumors, so please bear in mind that all of this is second hand information but I know one thing, which is that their approach cannot function.