GD70 and 955 tests...Now open for discussion...beta bios 136 now available post #7

[Tony]

I have the board, i have the CPU...i have the Animal ram to go with it

So here we go had the board 3 weeks or so, had 955 2 weeks and been thru a few bios files testing...

Few pics and links to the board, Click the pic for a link to the MSI product page.



Overall board features.

Now I am using an Intel Tri channel kit for testing...weird I know but we do an equivalent for you AMD users also.

the kit I am using is codenamed Animal....what this means is you have to look for the A in the part number. Now what gets confusing is the AMD special kits we are doing also have an A...let me explain more.

Click the pic for the link...what i have is basically the same as this.
I am actually using this kit minus 1 of the modules: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec_...iteria=BA26056
You will not find it on OCZ.com....this kits is a forum only spec'd item with the following spec's.

Its built using cas9 2000MHZ rated Micron IC's, we can and will push these IC's into various kits...the ONLY way you will know its special is looking at the part number.
For now these kits are TRI channel only...so you AMD boys are going to end up with 2 spare modules if you buy 2 kits and want to run 8GB .

OCZ OCZ3P1333LVA6GK 6gb kit ...make note of the A..OCZ OCZ3P1333LVA6GK 6gb kit.
Now the AMD special kits such as the 1600Plat 4GB kit have very similar part numbers..IE 4GB (2x2048MB) D/C Kit PN - OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK there are subtle differences though. I can tell you they are built from the same IC type but not quite as high a speed bin as the Animal tri kits.

Now lets talk about the 955 processor and how it performs/overclocks.

AMD have made a slight revision with this processor, it can still run DDR2 as well as work on socket 941 DDR3 AM3 boards. It has a much improved memory controller that has much higher clock capabilities....let me explain.

Phenom2 has 4 items you need to consider when overclocking.

1 the processors clock speed.
2 the memory controller clock speed
3 the HT link speed
4 the speed of the memory

1 thru 3 can be manipulated using multipliers and the common HTT bus speed...which is 200. The memory has 4 default options being 800, 1066,1333 and 1600MHZ. of course as you push up HTT bus clock speed the speed of the memory also increases based on these fixed start points.

What you need to be aware of is that pushing to get maximum clock speed from the memory does NOT mean the system will be fast. I have found the memory controller within 955 does have a ram clock limit that is really hard to push thru, and for day to day use its just NOT worth pushing to get upto or past this limit...there are OTHER WAYS of dialing in speed.

So...what did i find?

Max ram speed is around 1800MHZ, so those buying 2000MHZ ram you may never see rated speed from the memory...this does not mean you can not have a fast system though...buying ram which runs at high clocks also means it should do medium clocks with tight timings really well too

There are 2 modes to run the memory controller..ganged and unganged.

ganged means 128bit wide...dual channel is seen as 1 fat memory module
unganged means 2x64 bit where each module can be accessed individually.

Unganged is faster...but its also harder for the memory controller at high memory clocks. some times switching to ganged can make an unstable memory clock be stable but you lose around the same performance as going from 1T to 2T timings.

Memory controller clock speed also has a huge impact on system speed. Default on the 955 is 2GHX...there is just no sense in running this way...if you see reviewers doing this they are NOT getting the best from the system.
with 955 the multiplier for the memory controller (CPU-NB) is totally unlocked, this means default multi is 10...but you can push this UP and well as DOWN.
Try to consider the memory controller as just another processor and overclock it the same way...increase voltage to gain higher clocks but be aware that doing so injects heat into the system.

The other item you need to consider while testing is labelled the NB voltage. DO NOT confuse this with the CPU-NB voltage...NB voltage is the 790FX chipset voltage. I have found around 1.25V is the sweet spot but you need to add active cooling. Pushing the CPU-NB clock higher needs an increase in NB voltage also...if you are trying to push from 1600 MHZ ram to 1800MHZram you will have to tweak the NB voltage also...so again make note of this.

So...moving along we need to add ram speed and latency into the mix along with the CPU_NB clock speed.

Testing with average watercooling i found my 955 sample will sit all day with a NB clock speed of 2.8GHZ...this using the 14multi X 200HTT bus clock speed.It will go higher but i found doing so limited how high i could take the CPU clock speed. The sweet spot i found was CPU clock at 3.8GHZ and CPU-NB clock at 2.8GHZ.
Max HT multipler is 13 and with no HT voltage increase at all the board would happily run this for an overall HT clock of 13x200HTT bus clock so 2.6GHZ.
Remember HT clock can not be higher than the CPU-NB clock so i could run the CPU-NB at 2.6GHZ also but i would have to lower HT clock speed if I wanted to run the CPU-NB at 2.4GHZ..keep this in mind

Keeping things simple I tested 1333 ram speed and 1600 ram speed both with 1T timings. I also kept CPU, HT and CPU-NB clocks constant...the only changes were ram clock speed and base timings.

1333 6-6-6-24 tRC 28 1T
1600 7-7-7-24 tRC 30 1T

Both were using Vdimm 1.65V.

A simple test for me to run is PCmark vantage, I have a full pro version so i can show the individual scores and break down the differences.

First up the 1600MHZ run using 7-7-7-24 1T timimgs, you will note from the pic that the CPU speed, CPU-NB speed and HT link are the same for both tests.



Now the 1333 run, 6-6-6-24 1T timings.



Would you believe that the 1333 run was a tad faster really nothing it in though. This proved to me running either way would give overall similar system performance, it also showed the 955 is not starved of bandwidth, faster latency actually increased some scores a little hence the 1333 run was that little bit faster.

Gaming does favour the 1600 7-7-7-24 setting so lets double check with 3Dmark Vantage.

[Tony]

How about a dead heat ?




Well from the looks of this 1333 still wins but 4 points?

I actually now see there is no need to push memory to silly clock speed at least when you use Futuremark products to bench mark them...maybe its time for some encoding action to see which is faster?

[M Yancey]

Tony I am building a new system now thanks for the INFO!! What would be the best memory to run? I was told to run i7 memory just two stick.The next problem is it is going to be hard to run memory in the first two slots,but if I use slot 3&4 will it be in dual channel? Thanks to the help

[Tony]

well you can order Animal series... which is a TRI kit for now and just keep 1 module spare, or the new AMD 1600 part 7-7-7-24 is good also.

let me link you up for the Animal series at its not on our site...its a forum only line.

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec_...iteria=BA26056 thats the i7 Animal kit...this is cas9 rated Micron 1.65V sold with a 1333 badge on the front...cheap and clocks well

OR...this uses similar spec IC...http://www.ocztechnology.com/product...um_amd_edition and is a 2 module kit.

[Tony]

Managed to snag a good pic of the Cell menu page...here i will explain briefly what voltages you need to be bothered about for safe 24/7 overclocks and some general tweaking.

CPU-VDD and CPU-NB VDD are the VID voltages and all you really need to bother about. The 3rd and 4th options are offsets and not worth touching unless you want to go over 1.55V.Remember CPU Vid is higher than CPU-NB at default. Adding more CPU-NB voltage can add a lot of heat to the CPU...add voltage in tiny steps..not big jumps

Vmem defaults to 1.6V on my board here...it does allow lower and a LOT higher. Low voltage DDr3 kits like a max of around 1.68V so you won't need to tweak much

NB Voltage is the 790FX chipset core voltage, 1.25 to 1.3V helps a great deal especially with CPU-NB overclocking and memory overclocking. keep it cool though by placing a fan blowing on the VRM area (the big silver heatsink)

HT voltage...a small bump here helps get the 13 multi working for 2600MHZ HT, more MHZ may need more volts...keep the jumps tiny while testing.

[Tony]

before i get into memory tweaking its important I explain 1 simple rule regarding Phenom 1 and Phenom 2 CPU's including the new AM3 versions.

Phenom allows independent overclocking of both its CPU's and its memory controller frequency. A common bus frequency of 200 is used by both..BUT both have independent multipliers.

Now what you may not be aware of is a increasing CPU-NB clock increases memory efficiency BUT there comes a point where efficiency will not rise any more unless you increase memory clock.

If you set 1066-DDR2 with the CPU-NB at default clock you will see a small gain in performance...if you however leave the memory at 800MHZ-DDR2 and increase CPU-NB to say 2.2GHZ you will see a gain in performance higher than just setting 1066MHZ at default CPU-NB clock.

If however you want a larger increase in performance obviously 1066MHZ and 2.2GHZ CPU-NB will have larger gains than running at 800MHZ.

The main point here is memory efficiency is directly linked to CPU-NB core frequency. At default the CPU-NB is NOT at its most efficient. Usually a 400MHZ increase in speed can bring 800MHZ memory up to the performance of 1200MHZ memory without the struggle

The higher you clock the memory the higher you need to clock the CPU-NB, they have to go hand in hand. There is NO POINT trying to clock your ram at 2000MHZ with a CPU-NB clock of 2000MHZ...you are wasting your time.

This applies to DDR2 and DDR3 CPU's, the only difference is DDr2 CPU's run a max CPU-NB of around 2600MHZ and the DDR3 ones around 3000MHZ on good air or watercooling.

[Tony]

MSI just came thru allowing the distribution of 136beta, this bios will go final in a few days with a new name so this is a way of getting the bios a little early

This really is a solid bios, works well with no real issues I have seen.

Grab the bios here

[lopri]

Excellent guide. I was looking for some in-depth analysis of PII and Tony didn't disappoint!

BTW give us DDR2 users some love, too! What can/should we expect from AM3 CPU + DDR2? When you say DDR2 CPU's max NB 2600MHz (compared to 3000MHz of DDR3 CPU), does it mean AM2 CPU vs. AM3 CPU or AM3 CPU + DDR2 vs. AM3 CPU + DDR3?

In other words, assuming an identical AM3 CPU: will the NB clocking be different depending on which RAM standard?

Thank you again for this guide/study. Very informative. :thumbsup;

[Tony]

I requested the DDR2 version of this MSI board, I think MSI have a lot to offer here as this board is extremely well made

Im testing the old DFI790FX M2R with DDr2 and i found DFI have either messed up the 1066 clocking or the 955 does not do 1066 as easy as the 940's ...either way I will be posting in the DFI secrtion of this forum with those results.

NB speeds..2800 and 2600 showed no difference and 2600 needs less juice, for 3.6 to 4GHZ i don't think you need 2.8GHZ NB being honest 2.6 does just fine coupled with ram at 1333 6-6-6-24 1T you are running pretty damn fast.

1600 7-7-7-24 1T is proving a tad slower than 1333 6-6-6-241T same NB speeds, so it looks like efficiency is dictating we need a NB speed of 3000 to make 1600 ram speeds shine...its not worth the juice and struggle IMO to get there for 24/7 though.

[rj3005]

Thank you Tony for this guide,

Do you know were I can buy the AMD kit? ( OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK ) I cannot find it locally nor any online store that ships to Spain. The only ddr3 1600 kits I can find here are the 2X2Gb gold kits (OCZ3G16004GK - 8-8-8-24)

Also can you say something about maximum speed while running 4 sticks DDR3 and a 955?

[lopri]

Thank you for the explnation. Another Q: What's the best value for ACC? I have no idea what it does, but does it matter and if so how do I know? Is there any other parameter/voltage to be changed along with ACC, or does it work by itself?

[M Yancey]

Thanks Tony for the link I received my memory today, let me know about the timings running 4 sticks of 1333.

[Tony]

Thank you Tony for this guide,

Do you know were I can buy the AMD kit? ( OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK ) I cannot find it locally nor any online store that ships to Spain. The only ddr3 1600 kits I can find here are the 2X2Gb gold kits (OCZ3G16004GK - 8-8-8-24)

Also can you say something about maximum speed while running 4 sticks DDR3 and a 955?

the kits are just shipping out to retailers...keep watching and they will show soon.

4 sticks...1333 is officially the max, you can however install using 4GB, then add another 4 and play with OC to get it higher. Stay in the 1333 mode though ACC

Thank you for the explnation. Another Q: What's the best value for ACC? I have no idea what it does, but does it matter and if so how do I know? Is there any other parameter/voltage to be changed along with ACC, or does it work by itself?

Advanced Clock Calibration will allow you to dial in a weak core on OC, OR push all 4 a little higher possibly.

test with prime95, if 1 core drops out continually on testing apply ACC to that core and see if it helps.

[M Yancey]

Thanks for the fast reply Tony! Do you thank it will benefit to run raid 0 or be faster with 1 10000 rpm hardisk. I am running raid 0 with 2 TB now on a DKA790GX WITH PHENOM 940. But I wont this rig to be fastest it can be. I think I read where you said it would run faster with 1 fast harddisk than 2 big harddisk in raid 0?

[Tony]

get a Vertex m8 .. 1 drive is all you need LOL